1-on-1 with Patrick is a series of web design coaching sessions for wannabe web designers.
In this episode we have Upasana Paul from Siliguri, India! We discuss:
- Where Upasana is at in her web design journey
- How Upasana used Instagram to get her first web design client
- Where Upasana currently stands with that client
- Overcoming fear of making mistakes
- Choosing which web design platform to use for a unique client
- Which web design platform is best for e-commerce
- Keeping your client onboarding process as simple as possible
- The basic fundamentals of SEO for a new website
- Pricing your web design services as a newbie designer
- Dealing with cultural norms and a changing global landscape
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Tools & Resources Mentioned in This Episode
- Webflow
- Adobe
- Shopify
- Weebly
- Wix
- Elementor
- Upasana’s Instagram
- Questions to Ask Your New Web Design Client
- The Complete Web Design Process
- Pricing Your Web Design Services
- How to Handle Haters
- Learning Web Design Fast
Episode Transcript
Where Upasana is At in Her Web Design Journey
Upasana: Hey Patrick!
Patrick: Hey, how’s it going?
Upasana: I’ve been fine, how are you?
Patrick: I can’t complain. By the way, how do I, is it UpasAna? Did I say it right?
Upasana: It’s Upasana.
Patrick: UpAsana?
Upasana: Yes.
Patrick: Okay. So the emphasis is on the….
Upasana: You’re the first person to pronounce it correctly.
Patrick: Really?
Upasana: Yea.
Patrick: It’s not that hard. Sweet, now I feel special. Tell me a little bit about yourself and your experience with web design so far.
Upasana: So, I’m basically a Software Engineer or I was trained to be a Software Engineer. I have a B Tech in Software Engineering. And for the past, like three years, I’ve been working for various startups. As an Integration Engineer, basically we used to work using various API for integrating different platforms. For example, say you want to integrate Zendesk with your website and they would be working on that and providing support to customers across all our clients. Yeah, it was good work but it was also fulfilling work and like I said, I stay wake till four that is basically because my work time would be like, I would work like 12, 13 but really hectic and crazy. So I decided to quit and like pursue something that I was more interested in. My main motto in life was to help people and make people’s lives easier in any way I could. And since I was already fulfilling, I want to just pick up something that will remain in my field. But I don’t know, something that would involve the passion I’ve always had for designing and would help me make people’s lives easier.
So I decided to become a UX designer. The crazy shifts they had, did not let me really study alongside my work, which is what I wanted to do, but it just wasn’t possible. So I had to quit so that I could pursue this route, like educate myself and then properly go into it. And I found now to be the best time, frankly because a lot of people would be offering free videos and free coachings due to the quarantine. I thought it was the best thing to take the time off and learn because I’ve been doing this continuously for the past three years, without even catching a break.
And yeah, I basically, I started an Instagram handle in which I post a few challenges. So I started like getting daily challenge mainly because they wanted to [Inaudible 02:49 – 02:51], because I had a passion for it. But, yeah, like a few people reached out to me from that and they want to make a website and they want to redesign their brand and so on. And then suddenly I was lost. I don’t know if I could do it anymore. So yeah, that’s what I started quickly doing YouTube searches for like how to create a website and how to maybe design it and hosted and so on. And yeah, I landed upon RapidWebLaunch and here we are.
Patrick: Awesome. Thank you for, it’s a very detailed backstory. That’s great. So what was that, tell me about that Instagram challenge. What was that about?
How Upasana Used Instagram to Get Her First Web Design Client
Upasana: Oh, yeah. So I, my handle is @upasana.design. If you go to it, you will find this hundred day, UX component challenge. It was started by [Inaudible 03:46] who was some Russian surname, I can’t pronounce it. But yeah, the challenge is basically a hundred days of sketching UX and UI components. She sends three words every day on a daily newsletter and you have to sketch out whatever you can related to those two words. Yeah, that’s pretty much it. That was the first thing I started doing. Like I said, mainly to give my Instagram handle active. I quit like a few days ago. Like I didn’t quit a few days ago, I quit a couple of months ago, but yeah, this two month notice period, which I had to serve. And so my last working day was like a few days ago. So, till then I wanted to keep the handle active, so after I finished my last working day, I could pick up a few more challenges, maybe do more creative things.
So that was a simple thing, it took me 15 to 20 minutes every day to make. And I thought, okay, I can do this alongside my work. Apart from that, I thought of picking up a few other challenges like the totally Logo Design Challenge, where you basically get the creative brief every day. Apart from that like, the main reason I actually did my “Rapid friend” via Google search and leading website design was, I got this guy, he wants to create a startup. So you want to open a furniture startup and those are pretty popular in India right now. Basically what used to happen was he wanted to buy furniture. You would go to some retailer or a carpenter who would create furniture for you. And often late these startups are started cropping up where they basically sell furniture online. And, they also have like a retail store where you can go and you can view them physically and check them out if you want. And this is like, it’s a similar concept that he was trying to do. And I was like, this is pretty standard. I can just create this in Wix I guess. But I didn’t want to do that, obviously.
Patrick: How did this guy find you?
Upasana: He found me on my Instagram surprisingly.
Patrick: Really?
Upasana: He just reached out to me saying, “Yeah, I’ve seen you like the UX components that you made” and I have added that I’m like a UX designer in my bio.
Patrick: Yeah.
Upasana: And he reached out to me and i was so surprisingly because the sketches I make are pretty child-like, they were childish. They were not very mature and beautifully designed. I just do them in 15 minutes.
Patrick: And this is a new Instagram handle, right? A new account?
Upasana: Yeah.
Patrick: So how…?
Upasana: It has 148 followers.
Patrick: How many?
Upasana: It has like 148 followers and 35 posts on it.
Patrick: So, how did you use specific hashtags? Was that part of the challenge that people could look up? How did he find you?
Upasana: I did specifically ask. I think you might have found me, because I use a, I don’t use a lot of hashtags because a lot of [Inaudible 06:49 – 06:52]. I am new to Instagram. I am not exactly sure but one of the post had things like tables and stuff in it. So I use the hashtag, they would learn something today. And he did show me like his idea after that. So he probably searched, they found me under that handle hashtag. That is what my guess is. I didn’t specifically want to ask him how did he find me, because people find that very rude in India.
Patrick: That’s awesome though. So you’re already pulling in leads or potential clients through Instagram, through a brand new account too. And through taking part in a specific challenge that someone else created. Because most people, including myself, I think of a challenge like that. They’re great because you committed to practicing your skills and proving your skills every day, but I never really thought of it from a perspective that you could actually potentially get clients.
Upasana: Yeah, neither did I, actually. I was pretty shocked myself. I didn’t want to disappoint him but I have absolutely no clue what to do.
Where Upasana Currently Stands With That Client
Patrick: So, what’s happening now then? Are you working on the website with him?
Upasana: No. I told him I’ll reach out to him, a creative brief so that I can get a clearer understanding of exactly what he want. And I don’t think he will hire me because, what he wanted was an entire website hosted and everything.
Patrick: And you said no?
Upasana: I didn’t say no. I said, I’ll get back to you.
Patrick: What? Why would you say that? That’s an immediate yes.
Upasana: Yeah, well, I do not, I was not really sure what to do. Like I said, I have absolutely no clue what to do.
Patrick: Okay.
Upasana: I spoke to one of my friends who knows a little bit more than me about web site design. He has been working in this field a little bit. And he told me it would require like, I would have to create on an e-commerce engine or something of the sort and I’d have to include that on the backend and things like that. And just get to know the higher end, he wants to do this entire thing. And I’m like, I know I have seriousness of the geometry of knowledge, but not to the extend where I can do the extensive backend in development and the SEO. And furniture websites tend to have that thing right, where projections with like, suppose we want to buy a sofa and immediately get suggested to buy like a table or a chair, or like a coffee table, maybe a top that will go with the sofa and that is something he wanted. And I didn’t know how to do that. Basically….
Overcoming Fear of Making Mistakes
Patrick: That’s good though. You’re being, you’re being completely honest and transparent about what you’re able to do and what you’re not able to do. So that is good. That’s a good quality. Not enough people are willing to do that. They will say yes to anything and everything without actually being sure that they can provide true values to the clients. So it’s good that you’re willing to do that. So you said “I’ll get back to you.”
Upasana: Yeah. I mean, I don’t want to promise something to this guy who potentially might be my first client and then not be able to deliver it. And then completely ruin my operations from the very beginning because we started founders in Bangalore, like he’s from Bangalore and that’s in the startup hub in India. And these people tend to be very well connected. So if I screw this up, I am pretty much screwed up in the startup sector of Bangalore.
Patrick: Really? You think so?
Upasana: Yeah. Yeah. I have worked in a couple of start-ups, right? Like I have been worked in startups, so I know how well connected these start-ups are. Yeah and I don’t want to, like, I don’t want to [Inaudible 10:36]. So that is like, if I can do something and he needs it really fast, like he need to launch it and [Inaudible 10:41] funds. So if I cannot do something, I really don’t want to promise it’s to the client.
Patrick: Sure. Do you think part of that is just kind of your fear telling you that, but you’re afraid….?
Upasana: Possible…
Patrick: ….of doing it wrong and that it’s going to be much, if you mess up, it’s going to be a much bigger failure than it might actually be?
Upasana: Possibly because that is the kind of rule I used to work in for the past two years.
Patrick: Right. So you definitely know more about it than I do. Yeah. Okay. So then, what’s your biggest question or struggle right now? What can I help you with?
Upasana: So my biggest question is lately I can design a website per say. I can do it on Adobe, is what I understand. But I am not sure about how I’m supposed to like create it on WordPress or Webflow and how that entire thing goes about and how exactly that part of it work and how it’s hosted. I know that there is an e-commerce engine which I have to base it on something like that but I’m not sure of what to do there.
Patrick: Okay. So, you haven’t picked a web design tool yet?
Upasana: No, I don’t know. I don’t know the whole bunch of entire designing and the blogging process if you ask me. Like I have a client out of nowhere and I don’t know what to do.
Patrick: That’s funny though. That’s good, it’s a good problem to have, because most, there are so many people that actually have the skills and know everything about web design, but can’t get clients. So you have it the other way around. You’ve got the clients but now you got to learn the skills real quick.
Upasana: Right…
Choosing Which Web Design Platform to Use For a Unique Client
Patrick: So yeah, the first step is definitely, you need to figure out which a website platform you use. And that just comes with research and frankly practice because all of these platforms, you can sign up for a free account easily. And just starts playing around with it, testing things. And then just doing research into each individual one and see what the pros and cons are. I started with Weebly myself, when I was first starting out because I, again, I didn’t know much about web designs either. I was learning. I liked the simple drag and drop interface. There wasn’t a lot of backend nonsense that something like WordPress might have, and it seemed a bit overwhelming for me at the time. And I wanted to get the fundamentals of web design down first, before I got into something more advance. So I did Weebly for a couple of years and then it slowly grew my business. And as my skills groups, then I jumped over to WordPress because I felt comfortable picking that move. And I chose WordPress because it’s the most popular web design platform world. I think about 35% of all websites are hosted or built on WordPress.
And it’s, there’s another reason why it’s the most popular, but a big one is, its functionality. It’s so customizable. You can do anything you want with it. So in addition to WordPress, I found the plugin Elementor, that’s what for me changed WordPress dramatically, because I liked things about WordPress, but my primary concern was always still being able to provide easy access for my clients to make edits and changes when they want to. WordPress is overwhelming for the average person. But Elementor as a plugin that integrates with WordPress, it’s basically a new CMS that makes WordPress easier. Why? Because it drag and drop interface for my clients to be able to make it easier edits and changes. So, it’s also incredibly streamlined the process of building websites because most websites are built from templates these days. And there’s pros and cons to that. I would say there’s more pros than cons. It’s made web design more accessible, more affordable to many more people. Cons are, you’ll start to see a lot of websites look the same. If someone doesn’t know how to take a template and customize it, make it unique to each individual business or client.
What I like about Elementor, is that you can actually build your own templates. So it’s still a template functionality, but it’s got the customization of basically custom websites. You’re kind of building blocks basically, build your own template. So that’s why I landed on that. But when it comes to, it sounds like with your clients, primary important feature is e-Commerce. WordPress has, you can integrate tons of e-Commerce plugins with it but depending on what your client needs, it might make more sense to do something like Shopify. Are you familiar with Shopify?
Upasana: I think I saw a few videos but I’m not really familiar with it.
Patrick: Okay. So Shopify is, I would say it’s the best e-Commerce website builder in the world. I think it’s the leading platform for a lot of different reasons, but again, simplicity and ease is a big one. So have you given any thought as to how you’re going to decide which web design tool to use?
Upasana: The tools I like in the past, I have used a few sites like Wix and Squarespace, and I liked them a lot. But then I guess if you created daily and to post it on Wix or Squarespace, it says there’s no way to export the code. And what I was going to say to this guy is like “Hey I can design a website”. Maybe export the code and give it to you and you could ask some someone to add it to the backend part of it.
Patrick: Yeah… You’re thinking you’d maybe build the site with like Wix or something, export the code, give it to him and then they would do some of the backend stuff. Right? Unfortunately, it’s not quite how it works. Like, so one of the cons to these website builders, there’s a list of pros, including making web design much easier to do for the average user, its streamlining processes and none of that. But one of the cons is that when you build sites on these website builders, you are building for their platform. You cannot easily explore a site and import it into another platform.
Upasana: But what about Webflow? Like I’ve heard that you could do that from there and the code is pretty clean. I mean, I’ve heard that but haven’t check it out I think exporting is a paid feature.
Patrick: Yeah. It’s funny. You’re the third person out of four people I’ve done this with that had talked about Webflow, which is amazing to me. I’m starting to wonder if I’m getting Webflow spies online, on the here. So that they advertise their platform because I looked into it a few years ago. There’s definitely a lot of cool features, but it is more, it is a more advanced platform. And so when I’m talking to people on here, it’s with people that are just starting out with web designs or in their early stages. But somehow Webflow is, seems to come up.
So I find it really interesting, but definitely, I’m not an expert in that. So from what I can see, and I’ve seen from other people, there’s definitely a lot of cool features and pros. And then one of them is yes, they seem like they take an extra effort to keep the code clean and easy to export and import. So that is, that’s an important feature. For you, then Webflow might be for you.
Which Web Design Platform is Best For E-Commerce
Upasana: So if I choose not to do that, like if I choose to do the entire thing, what would you suggest? Like, would you suggest WordPress or Elementor, but how would I go about the e-Commerce aspect of it? Like the things I was talking about.
Patrick: Right. I couldn’t give you a clear answer until I know more about the project and more about what the client needs, what he needs at the store. So, because there’s so many different ways to do e-Commerce, there’s so many different little features. Now there’s just the basic concept of selling products online is super easy. That’s easy to do on some rate of platforms. But then it gets down to the little details, special features that you mentioned a few of them before. That’s when things get a little more complicated, depending on the platform you have chosen, it can make it easier or harder. So unfortunately I would need a little bit more to get clearance around that. I would definitely say… Go ahead.
Upasana: What kind of data would you need? So the other thing I have to do is send the client a creative brief and ask them to fill it up. I know two basic questions that I want to ask them, but I’m not really sure what exactly to ask. Like I know I need to ask him what his business rules and what is startup audience is one but…
Patrick: Okay.
Upasana: But I am not sure what else I need to ask. And if they Google it, there are any number of places that you can ask the client and I don’t want to like drown him in questions, all of a sudden. They will be like, okay bye.
Patrick: Yeah. Yeah. If you overwhelm them, they can just disappear. You want to keep it as simple as possible for them, for sure.
Upasana: exactly.
Keeping Your Client Onboarding Process as Simple as Possible
Patrick: That is a challenge is getting, is onboarding clients and getting the content for them. I always try to simplify it down to no more than five, six questions, and then I try to take as much of the workload off of them as much as possible. For me, it always centers around brand and content. So most people I talk to are small business owners. So they haven’t given a lot of thought as to what their brand is? What it looks like. What they stand for? What is the product or service that they’re selling? And not just, what is it or what are they selling?
Can you distill it down to one simple sentence, like five or six words? Most people have asked them to say, okay, send me some content about your business. And they send you like a whole page. Like, here’s our backstory from 1972, this whole about us. People don’t care about reading that, they want to know what you’re going to do for them. Keep it simple, short, concise. So I would definitely say help them depending on what level he’s at and understanding what is a business. Help them get a clear picture of what exactly, what product or service he’s offering? Who his ideal client is? Who is he trying to attract to this website? How, why, what do you want them to do when they get there?
Obviously, it sounds like he’s trying to sell furniture, so that’s the objective, okay. What type of person buys your furniture? Where do they go online? Do they spend a lot of time on social media? Do they spend more time Googling things? Like that’s what you’re going to figure out, okay, what’s the main marketing channel? How are we going to draw traffic now? Now that’s a little more advanced further along, but it’s good to think about those things from the beginning, because that’s been a formal foundation with the site. A lot of people think you can just do a template, cookie cutter thing, fill in the pictures and texts. Okay, done. I don’t think sales are just going to start pouring in and then you can worry about drawing in traffic, but that’s not the best way to do it. Content always comes first. To get better content, you really need to understand your client and their needs, and they need to understand their customers, their ideal customers and what they’re offering.
Upasana: Yeah.
Patrick: So I would try not to get too lost in the, you say creative brief. Try to keep it as short and sweet. I like to keep it informal. I don’t even send a brief. When I sign a client, I’m like, let’s hop on the phone. Talk to me for 10 to 15 minutes, whatever about what, who you are? What you do? Who’s your ideal client? And I’m taking notes the whole time and I’m asking questions and I’m getting them to think. And you know, so I’ll say, “Okay, tell me what you do? What do you offering?” And they don’t go on for like 30 seconds. And the end, “Okay, it’s great. Now shorten that to 10 seconds.” Its like, that’s impossible. No, it’s not. You it’s have to try and to get a little thought, it’s possible. Then finally, we’ve kind of whittled that down and to 10 seconds. That’s great. Now do it in five seconds. Yeah.
And that’s literally because that’s how much time you have to catch people when they land on your site. People have short attention spans these days. You have to be very clear about what you’re offering. And you clearly have experience in user experience, right? That’s your whole thing. That’s going to be a big advantage because web design is all about user experience now. The point where Google prioritize it, it will rank websites higher or lower based on the experience visitors are having with the website. So if people just show up on a website and they leave within five seconds that tells Google, “Oh, they didn’t get the answer to what they’re looking for.” And they’re going to lower your website ratings. So you have an advantage, knowing more about UX and UI than the average person. And if you can find a way to apply that to your web design, you’ll be at a big advantage.
The Basic Fundamentals of SEO for a New Website
Upasana: That’s true. Speaking of Google and website optimization. How exactly is SEO done for a website? Like how do you optimize across website.
Patrick: Oh. How has SEO done? Yeah, that is like, that’s not something that can be answered in one…. So, there’s a lot of different ranking… You know what? There isn’t a lot of ranking factors, there’s only a few but they’re very important. The rule will doesn’t, it’s like you can tell everybody they don’t release, like here’s the formula we use to rank websites because then everyone will game the system. So people, SEOs are just constantly trying to figure out, every time Google updates their algorithm, what did they do? What did they change? And they either testing, testing, testing. It always to me, the direction that Google is heading is prioritizing user experience. So the technical aspects of SEO are becoming less and less important. The user experience is becoming way more important because Google is getting better at figuring out search intent. So it’s no longer just about the keyword. It’s about what is the intent behind the keyword? What was the user looking for? So for example, if I Google Nike shoes, what is it that I’m likely looking to do? Why I am googling Nike shoes?
Upasana: You want to buy Nike shoes?
Patrick: Exactly. That’s my intent. So what does Google serve me? They don’t serve me a bunch of pages about the history of Nike and when they first made the Air Jordan. No, they send a bunch of pages of companies that are selling Nike shoes because they understand that’s what I’m looking for, not for the back history of Nike shoes.
Upasana: Okay. So basically if someone is searching for, let’s say, buying a sofa, my website should rank in the first page of Google.
Patrick: Well, it’s definitely not that simple. But what I’m trying to say is like, yeah, so it’s clear for your client, like when people search for furniture, almost always they’re searching with the intent of buying furniture. So now you understand your visitors. When they come to your page, they’re looking to buy, that should influence your design. If ever, they should be optimized to get a conversion, to get that person to buy a piece of furniture. So keywords are still important for sure. Basically when you’re doing a page, you can do some, once you figured out your ideal client, what do they search for? Do some basic keyword research and see, try to find keywords that are high traffic but low competition. Because when you have a brand new website, it’s going to take a great deal of time to rank that website. So you want to look for less competitive keywords? Yeah. There’s keywords that have tons of traffic, they’re way up here, which are going to be competing with massive brands and you’ll never get those.
So you want to find ones that still have decent traffic and enough traffic, but are lower competition. And then you’ll integrate those keywords into your site, but you got to do so naturally. You can’t just stuff keywords all over the page that people used to do and gain the system. People are smarter than that. So you try to take that keyword and work it into like the copy of the wording that you use, the paragraphs, the headings, stuff like that. Outside of that, designing it for the user experience and for conversion first, keeping it focused on one simple call to action, in this case buying the furniture. And then, back links are important as well. And that tells Google the more quality links you get to your site, it tells Google that you are an authority and you’re to be trusted. If people are linking to you, then you should be ranking higher for those questions.
Upasana: What exactly do you mean by back links?
Patrick: Just a link to your site. So like if I put a link in a blog post to your site that would be a link from other websites to yours.
Upasana: Okay, okay.
Patrick: Yeah.
Upasana: That makes sense.
Patrick: Yeah. A link from other websites to yours.
Upasana: How do I achieve that? Do I have to tell him to like, reach out to people?
Patrick: Yeah. That level of SEO, it’s a whole separate project outside of web designer. One of the most effective ways to get back links is to create consistent, high quality content. That’s how I got my back links to my site and that’s how I grew my traffic. That’s how I drew more visitors in. And that’s how I get all my clients. Now they find me through SEO. I don’t do any advertising. I don’t get any ad words on any social media. It’s always been, I do everything with the goal of getting a search trap. But yeah, so creating high quality content, you’ve got to create content that’s worth linking to basically. The basic fundamentals for a new website, you want to do things like set up a Google profile, my places profile, right? A place where customers can review your business. For me, Google reviews are very valuable. The more Google reviews you get, the more Google will highlight your profile and people are searching for certain keywords.
Pricing Your Web Design Services as a Newbie Web Designer
Upasana: The other thing I want to know is like, how exactly do I price this entire project? Very unsure of how I do that.
Patrick: How much do you want to make?
Upasana: I haven’t really thought about it. Like of a site of this scale in India, would cost somewhere on the range of like, all the things that he said he would be like according to my friends who are in trends in web designing, they were like asking the five flat, which is 500,000 rupees, on the verge of $7,000, I think.
Patrick: $7,000. So you would say the average price for this type of website or project is $7,000.
Upasana: Yeah, including on the back end stuff, which is basically what costs more than the design aspect of it.
Patrick: Right. Okay. So have you had a discussion with him about pricing at all yet? Like where his head is at with the budget?
Upasana: Not really. I mean, I told him I’d reach out to him with all the things, because I was clear about the things that I’d have to do right? It’s not just designing something and having a domain and designing and deploying it and implementing it and testing it and doing SEO for it. He basically was looking for like an all down, which is why I think he won’t hire me is like he was looking for an all-round professional who would do everything for him. Like, how do you expect someone to know everything? Because he included marketing and furniture design and everything. And I’m like, I can only create web site for you. I can’t do anything else.
Patrick: Okay, that’s okay. But it if you want, so what he’s looking for is like an all in one package, right? He doesn’t want to have to go to this person for web design and this person for SEO and this person for content creation.
Upasana: No.
Patrick: That’s a great thing because you can take him on as a client, do what you do best and then outsource the rest. You hire someone to take care of the stuff that you don’t know. There’s nothing wrong with that, you know. That’s just how any business grows, right? That’s how any business builds. If a web design agency takes on a website client, it’s not just one guy working on it, they have a team. So one guy’s excels at web design, one excels at SEO, one excels at logo design, it’s a team. So if he wants that all in one package, then offer it to him, give him a quote for the whole thing. If he wants a logo design included, give them a quote and then hire a local designer to do it for you. The hardest part of any business is getting clients and they don’t, they have no problem with that because he wants it to be easy. He wants an all in one package with this one person who has a company. So give them that option.
And I like to be flexible with my clients, so I always ask if they have a budget. And some people are very hesitant, they don’t want to admit they have a budget, that’s fine. But it’s a good question to ask because you can build websites at various levels, right? So if someone wants to get a small business site online and they have these goals, or these are priorities, you can do it. Sometimes you can do that in a simple way for let’s say $500. Or you can get more advanced, you get into a few thousand dollars depending on the features and the ability? Like what what’s going to go in? How many pages? How much content? Would you also like a logo design? Like also want to create a blog posts, some SEO? You can strip stuff out and do a bare budget project if that’s what they want. So I like to do it that way. I know some designers they’ll just quote the price, take it or leave it. I don’t think that’s realistic. And me personally, most of my clients are small business owners, so they’re already looking for like affordable options. So I try to give them that. I try to be as flexible as possible. You said you’re not working right now, right? You don’t have a job right now?
Upasana: No, very unemployed.
Patrick: That’s perfect. You have all the time in the world then, just throw it into web design and practice and learn. Just spend as much time as you can testing all the different tools, learning like reading, watching YouTube videos, reading blogs. Consuming as much as you can and then practicing, practicing. You can start projects knowing a certain amount and then you’ll find that as the project goes along, there’s something comes up like, “Oh, I don’t know how to do that.” You know what you do? You Google it. And then you get your answer and then you do it. I still do that, sometimes. I still do that. I have times where I’m just trying to do something advanced. I’m like, “I’m kind of lost here. I’ve never done this before.” So just Google it. And that’s how you learn and you add that to your knowledge. So that next time you already know how to do it. We have an amazing opportunity, this massive network of free information. Any question you have, you can just immediately get an answer. You can get all this information that used to be contained and reserved for people that could afford to go to university or college and spend years on that, on that stuff. Now it’s all up there for free. You just got to take the time to mess in it.
Upasana: That’s true.
Patrick: So you have that opportunity…
Upasana: That’s basically what I wanted to do, right.
Patrick: Yeah. And you have the incentive because you already have a client. That’s amazing.
Upasana: Exactly.
Patrick: It’s nice chatting with you. I would love it, one thing I didn’t mention, do you have your own website yet?
Upasana: No.
Patrick: No?
Upasana: That is one of the thing that is in my pipeline, I have to create my own website.
Patrick: It’s a great way to practice. So just start building something for yourself. Pick the tool and then start practicing and building something for yourself. And when you have something, send me to link to check it out.
Upasana: I definitely will. I actually love RapidWebLaunch’s website. I have been going to a lot of websites in the past few days to see what kind of website will be perfect for me. And I was like, when I found a YouTube channel, I automatically went on this website and it was like, “Oh my God, perfect. It has the perfect visuals… It has the perfect copy… it’s so amazing.
Patrick: I appreciate that. Thank you very much. But I’ll tell you right now, it did not look like that from the beginning. Like if I could show you when I was first starting out what my website and my blogs and what stuff looked like, it was horrible. That’s the reason why I’ve deleted all evidence of it off the internet. I actually wish I still had the screenshots, so I could show people because you know, you look at someone who’s reached a certain level of success. It’s easy to just look at that like, “Oh, they’re just really good at this. They’ve always been good at this.” It’s not. We all follow the same path or journey of learning, experimenting, practicing, and growing. And so you’re just starting here early, really part of that journey. So keep at it.
Dealing With Cultural Norms and a Changing Global Landscape
Upasana: That’s true. And it’s amazing, actually. It depends on cultures, I guess, because in India, people who do not have a basic degree and engineering is considered a basic degree. Like if you don’t have an engineering or doctor’s degree or something, you are uneducated. People are really look down upon unless they have a basic degree. And people don’t get hired for anything. It’s very difficult for them to find jobs or clients.
Patrick: Yeah.
Upasana: I didn’t love that aspect of it because, born and brought up in India, my culture is extremely different from that. And I didn’t love that about the cultures outside India, because India is like, it would take time for us to reach there.
Patrick: Yeah. Yeah. I guess why I liked the opportunity, like when I speak of the opportunity is there, it’s there for pretty much everyone that has a good internet. It’s great because, I’ve talked to people from States, from Nigeria, from Philippines, from India and having access to the internet and building your own business, you have the ability to kind of bypass cultural norms.
Upasana: Exactly.
Patrick: And there’s kind of like this new generation of people, younger people that are basically have this opportunity to do that. And it’s kind of, a lot of ways it’s disrupting the system. There is this growing movement of, you don’t need college. So if you’re willing to like, yeah, obviously every culture is different, but who’s going to look down on you if you want your own successful business? I don’t care. If you haven’t gone to college, yeah, that’s great. You could be looking down on me for not having a higher education, but I have a business that makes a hundred thousand dollars a year.
Upasana: Mmmm yah not really…
Patrick: There you go, so… I’ve never been to India.
Upasana: I will. I have one last question for you and that is, do you mind if I can take a photo of us for Instagram?
Patrick: Sure. Yeah.
Upasana: Thank you so much. You really helped me out with a lot of clarifications and yeah, thank you for taking this call so much. Expect me to buzz you on emails.
Patrick: Okay. I look forward to it.
Upasana: Alright, Take care.
